I think you will see a clear evolution if you compare ‘Paradoxical Sleep’ to ‘Echoing Reverie’, but the few people who have heard it still consider it The Ultimate Dreamers.
The Ultimate Dreamers are making new music at full speed. Last week, their new single ‘Digging’ was released, and it is the precursor to the album ‘Paradoxical Sleep’, which is due for release in January 2025. That will be the group’s second album since the 2021 reunion, when a compilation was released of their work from their early years from 1986 to 1991. On Saturday 12 October 2024, they will play at a Dark Entries Night in Ghent’s Kinky Star, and that drove us to contact Ultimate Dreamer Frédéric Cotton again.
Hi Frédéric. The Ultimate Dreamers seem to be very busy. Since the band’s reunion in 2021, you have released a single, an album, an EP and a second single announcing the second album, which will be released in January 2025. How do you manage to be so productive?
Hi Xavier, thank you for this interview.
In 2021, The Ultimate Dreamers woke up from a very long sleep. Initially, the idea was just to promote ‘Live Happily While Waiting For Death’, the compilation of old demos released by Wool-E Discs. Soon the desire to expand it came, and I realized that we were a new group: the three original members had a new role – except for me who kept the vocals, but without guitar – and a new experienced keyboard player had joined. The context was very different. This, I think, explains our productivity: there was a thirst and a desire that was specific to young groups, even if we are all over fifty years old.
I’m not going to ask more questions about your work from the 80s, a compilation of which can be found on the 2021 album ‘Live Happily While Waiting For Death’. We’ve talked about it in previous interviews. Instead, I propose to talk about your new work since the band’s reunion in 2021. So let’s start with the single ‘Polarized’, which was released in September 2022. What was your ambition at that time?
After the archaeological excavations of our repertoire from the past, its rediscovery and restoration, 'Polarized' was the first completely new piece we have written. In that sense it is more modern in sound and energy. Our ambition at that time was to show who The Ultimate Dreamers were, in 2022: a group that had decided not to dwell in nostalgia, but to start a new adventure instead. I had a strong desire to release a 45 rpm/7” single, and that is what we did by founding our own label, Komakino Records.
A few months later, in January 2023, ‘Polarized’ was released in digital EP format with several additional remixes. This is one of the first releases of the Spleen+ label, a new section of the electro label Alfa Matrix that focuses on cold wave and post-punk. How did you manage to do this?
At the end of 2022, ‘Echoing Reverie’ was ready. I approached a few labels, several of which showed interest. Finally, we signed with Wave Tension Records for a vinyl release. I was also in contact with Alfa Matrix, but we fell a bit outside their electro catalogue. After some long discussions, Séba Dolimont took the opportunity to realize an idea he had had for a long time: the creation of a post-punk/cold wave/minimal wave sublabel. He proposed that we release ‘Polarized’ as a digital EP as a foretaste of the release of ‘Echoing Reverie’ in CD format, the label’s first production. He also asked me to collaborate on the creation of the magnificent compilation ‘Resurgence’ that will be released in December this year. We are now committed for a long-term collaboration with Spleen+, a label that is dear to us.
In March 2023, the album ‘Echoing Reverie’ is released. The record, available on CD and vinyl, contains six songs, supplemented by two additional remixes in digital format. We notice complex and varied compositions, which evolve considerably over the course of a song. In that sense, the album is very different from what you recorded in the 80s. How do you look at the difference between ‘Echoing Reverie’ and the older songs?
In fact, the ‘Live Happily…’ compilation mainly contained our very first songs, which we were able to record at home with the available means during the first phase of the group, when we relied mainly on synthesizers. We wrote other songs afterwards, with guitars and drums, but we were not able to record them in decent conditions. Four of the six songs on ‘Echoing Reverie’ – ‘A Day in the Life’, ‘Big Violent’, ‘Midnight’ and ‘Piano Ghost’ – were part of it. We reworked and re-recorded them in 2022, but they remain representative of the old Ultimate Dreamers. As I said before: ‘Polarized’ is completely new and belongs to the Ultimate Dreamers of today.
The following EP ‘Violent Ghost’ contained several remixes and very creative covers of three songs from ‘Echoing Reverie’. What was the band’s involvement in the composition of this EP?
‘Violent Ghost’ originally contained alternate mixes of ‘Big Violent’ and ‘Piano Ghost’ that I did with Len Lemeire in his studio. I wanted versions that were more muscular than on ‘Echoing Reverie’. These are also the versions that we play at concerts today. For ‘Midnight’ I wanted to use the classical musicianship of Sandrine, our new keyboardist. She helped write the piano and cello lines for a new acoustic version.
For the remixes, which are a bit of a tradition at Alfa Matrix, I called on three musicians I admire: Luca Bandini from Shad Shadows / Schonwald, Sébastien Carl from Hørd and Patrick Codenys from the legendary Front 242. I gave them carte blanche and the result is perfect. It was Patrick’s version that impressed me the most. He completely reconstructed the piece and appropriated it to do something different, but with the same spirit. Many people thought it was Jean-Luc De Meyer singing on this remix, but it is indeed my voice that we hear!
And now there is the new single ‘Digging’, which came out mid-September. I see again that the composition is intelligent and consists of different sections. How does composing songs work within The Ultimate Dreamers? Do you use guidelines, for example for the complexity of the song or the variation in different sections?
Thank you so much. ‘Digging’ is a piece I wrote in the summer of 2023, while on vacation in the area around Lübeck, Germany. It was a very enjoyable and productive two weeks, from the point of view of composing.
There are no precise rules for composing and even fewer guidelines. Most of the time it’s me who comes up with proposals that are already quite elaborated, and then they evolve with the input of the other musicians. Sometimes I let the song mature for a few weeks or months before starting over again. Other times Bertrand (guitar) and Joël (bass) come up with ideas that I then work on in my corner before bringing them back to the group where everyone adds their own touch. The final phase takes place in the studio of Len Lemeire, who brings a new perspective with his production and mix, which makes the piece evolve further. Len’s background is different from mine, but our collaboration gives a typically Belgian connection in my opinion. At least that’s what people pointed out to me during our mini-tour in England. We can modestly compare this mix to the music of The Neon Judgement, with a good balance between post-punk and electro.
With ‘Digging’ you announce the new album ‘Paradoxical Sleep’, which will be released in January 2025. Can you already tell us something about this new record?
The vinyl version will contain ten new compositions, and a new version of ‘Envoler’. It’s a song that was already present on ‘Live Happily…’ and that the public really likes. We thought it was worth a rework. It’s our only piece in French, but I sometimes sing it in Dutch also...
The CD version will have two bonus tracks: a second re-recorded old song, and an instrumental that we already play regularly on stage. The album is quite varied, with heavier parts and more intimate parts. In general it is dark, both in sounds and in the themes covered. Kelly O’Hara, a Scottish friend, co-wrote the lyrics. Two songs have two singers that I really like. They are very pleasant collaborations.
I think you will see a clear evolution if you compare ‘Paradoxical Sleep’ to ‘Echoing Reverie’, but the few people who have heard it still consider it The Ultimate Dreamers. Besides Len’s work, I have to emphasize the important contribution of Patrick Codenys, who gave me valuable advice for the mix and structure of certain pieces.
For ‘Digging’ and for a number of other songs, you made very professional videos, for which you called upon talented directors. What is your goal when you decide to release a clip for one of your songs?
I read somewhere that fewer videos are made these days than in the past. However, I believe that the image remains an important vehicle for music. I like to work with directors who bring their own sensitivity to the music. For ‘Echoing Reverie’ we mainly worked with Thomas De Moor (son of the cartoonist Johan). He produced four original videos. For ‘Paradoxical Sleep’ we work with Nele Vereecke from Ghent-Brussels, alias Amanita Noir, who has worked with many metal bands. Her creation takes ‘Digging’ to another level. It is a real success because the images give another dimension to the song.
The Ultimate Dreamers also did several covers, including AC/DC’s ‘Hell's Bells’ and The Cure’s ‘Lovesong’. What’s the point of covering songs for you?
This is a tricky subject, because I know some people don’t like covers. Some criticized us for doing it. I can understand it, since I myself have a holy horror of this whole wave of cover and tribute bands. But I think a one-off cover is something else, and you should see it as a tribute. There are plenty of examples, also in the dark scene. Think for example of the cover of ‘Ziggy Stardust’ by Bauhaus … This is also the case for our version of ‘Lovesong’ by The Cure, which is one of my favorite songs. I know hardcore fans are less fond of it, and even Robert Smith is condescending about it. This is one of the titles we covered with great pleasure during our first rehearsals in 2021. We made a slowed down, refined, darker version of it. When Séba asked us to collaborate on the compilation ‘A Strange Play. 2’, the cover was ready. We recorded it and still play it regularly.
For ‘Hell’s Bells’ it’s a bit different. I’m not really a fan of AC/DC, but one day I was blown away when I heard this song on the radio. I suddenly saw all the darkness and beauty of the song. I dissected it and put it back together into something different that was still respectful. In general this is a song that most people like. In England for example the reception was very enthusiastic.
You are also known as the organizer of Fantastique.Nights in Brussels, a series of concerts that I have always enjoyed very much. You announced that you would stop your activities as an organizer when The Ultimate Dreamers started to give a lot of concerts. However, I see that you continue to organize concerts from time to time. How do you plan to combine these two activities in the future?
For more than 20 years I put all my passion into these events. I thought about it morning, noon and night. It was almost obsessive and addictive, but the COVID pandemic freed me. Organizing concerts is an exciting but also very thankless activity. I had a lot of fun and met a lot of nice people, but I am relieved that I (almost) stopped. Nowadays I still organize one or two events a year, mostly to please friends, but I do not plan to return to the rhythm of the years 2015-2020.
I am sure that your activities as an organizer have also opened doors to obtain gigs. When I see your concert schedule, it is always full. How do you respond to this?
Many people think so, but it is not really true. With my activities as an organizer I have certainly built up a well-filled address book and a few people even returned the favor in the beginning, but there are many more who have a very short memory... However, these activities gave me a good understanding of how things work. I understand the needs of the organizers, which allows me to actually make appointments. The rest is mainly a lot of work, e-mails and phone calls. Without effort you do not achieve much. This applies to all areas.
Finally, I would like to thank the whole Dark Entries team for their support to the Belgian underground scene and to our project in particular. Your work and passion are very important. Thank you, really.
You're welcome.
The Ultimate Dreamers: website / bandcamp / facebook
Picture: Luc Luyten